bioshockfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Grace Holloway
Source Would you kindly tell us where you found this data? If this turns out to be true it could lead to an interesting plot development for B2. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 00:46, 2009 November 28. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! Ethnicity Is Grace the first black character in the Bioshock series?--Heavy Weapons Guy 18:04, February 11, 2010 (UTC) :The first one we've seen, certainly. Vae Infectus 22:55, March 4, 2010 (UTC) ::From general observation, as well as the Field Trial Audio Diary, it appears that Brute Splicers are black. ::[[User:BlueIsSupreme|'BlueIsSupreme']] 23:10, March 4, 2010 (UTC) :::Actualy, Sulivan [ did i spell that right?],Andrew Ryan's security gaurd [ i didn't spell that right] seems to be african american.I think...maybe i'm wrong... :::Little sister7364 20:49, March 20, 2010 (UTC) Little_sister7364 Outside mention? This might be entirely coincidental, but the character shares her name with one of the companions of Doctor Who's eighth incarnation. This may have been a tip of the hat to the series by the creators. Worth adding to the trivia? - 19:39, February 13, 2010 (UTC) Dispute text: "Eleanor was kidnapped by Ryan's men to be made into a Little Sister." Stanley Poole was the person that took Eleanor Lamb to the Little Sister's Orphanage. He was not aware that she would be turned into a Little Sister though once inside the orphanage. It is true that Stanley Poole was a spy working for Andrew Ryan and thus may be considered one of "Ryan's men", but a nod should be made to him. The text of "Eleanor was kidnapped by Ryan's men to be made into a Little Sister." does not acknowledge his involvement. Grace Holloway in her last audio diary states: "I turned my back, and someone took you - it happened so quick." Most likely that "someone" that took Eleanor away was Stanley Poole after realizing he could not have Eleanor tell Sophia Lamb that he had been managing her affairs poorly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 23:07, 2010 February 24. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! God, whoever kills Grace simply isn't morally sound Grace is probably the only 100% good sane character you meet in the whole BioShock series in my opinion. Poole's a cowardly bastard, Ryan, Fontaine and Lamb both committed great sins for their philosophies and wants, Tenenbaum, while an atoner, has one of the nastiest backstories and only changed her ways following the Little Sister project and even Alexander was﻿ involved in some nasty scientific exploits. Killing her would just be wrong. Her hatred of you stems from a misunderstanding... and ultimately, she lets you have what you want﻿ while she's unarmed. She's not as bad as Alex the Great, or the cowardly Stanley Poole. The other two are fair game. First time I played this game, I was pretty much prepared to kill Grace. But as soon as I got into her apartment and saw Eleanor's room, and Grace just standing there unarmed, I thought: "Why should I kill you? Eleanor probably wouldn't want that."﻿ So I just left her. And you know what, it was worth it. (KingShodo 02:30, March 7, 2010 (UTC)) :That's the thing about this kind of game, if you prefer to do it one way, the first time around, you can always go the other way next time. Vae Infectus 02:03, March 10, 2010 (UTC) :While I agree that killing her is wrong, I wouldn't go so far as to call her sane. Her hatred blinds her and she declared all big daddies being sadistic monsters, without even thinking about WHY they act the way they do. If she'd pop up right after one of her speeches, I might have killed her without thinking twice. She could at least have acknowledged that I saved the little sisters, instead of harvesting them. I'm somewhat surprised she acknowledged I let her live, not just atributing it to some programmed reflex or something.--Cyberman TM 08:47, October 23, 2011 (UTC) :-------- :On the other hand Grace was an aider and abettor to the attrocities that Sofia Lamb carried out. :Is Grace willfully blind to the fact that there are new Little Sisters in Rapture (especially after her lamenting Eleanors fate) More little children turned into Little Ghouls - or those dont count because they werent HER Eleanor? :Can Grace not see Splicers(or at least humans) being talked into or forced to 'offer themselves' to death to achieve Lamb's 'First Utopian' delusion ?? Eight years of this? Can she not have heard all of 'Father Wales' rantings about 'the lamb' etc... :Has Grace closed her eyes to all the 'unbeliever' corpses on display in Lambs kingdom ?? - obviously murdered. Despite Sofia Lamb long ago welcomed ALL to her 'Family' ?? :If she really wanted to save Eleanor from this 'Monster', shouldnt she have flushed that control key down her private toilet (or whatever other way she could have done to thwart Delta)?? :Willfully ignorant ?? Thats no defense. :Makes you wonder how one-sided/distorted so many other things might be when you try to judge the situation based largely on her Audio-diaries. : The Fate of Grace Holloway What happened to her after she tells Subject Delta of the pneumo package? There are a few possibilities: * She killed herself as she had nothing else to live for (highly unlikely). * She was killed by splicers under Sofia Lamb's order as she questioned her intentions, something that Sofia Lamb doesn't tolerate (which she would consider an act of betrayal, despite what she would say to others) * She aids either Brigid Tenenbaum or the protagonist of Bioshock 3 (most likely). I'm thinking that we might at least hear from and possibly see Grace in Bioshock 3. Vae Infectus 02:08, March 10, 2010 (UTC) :Except that Grace's death is a matter of choice, thus it is unlikely we'll see her again. Phoenix saturn 20:15, May 15, 2010 (UTC) :After she sent the bot, didn't she later say that she was going to questions Lamb about why she lied about Delta? I would think she was killed. :: 02:44, September 5, 2010 (UTC) Trivia :(The following is a coincidental similarity. It should not be placed in the article unless in can be proven that the developers were inspired by the name of the character in Dr. Who. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ 'ʈalk''' }]] 00:49, April 25, 2010 (UTC)) *Grace Holloway is also the name of a character in the ''Doctor Who 1996 Television Movie.(Grace Holloway on Wikipedia.)(Grace Holloway on Doctor Who Wikia) :(Moved the following comment to the talk page. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ 'ʈalk''' }]] 00:24, February 22, 2011 (UTC)) *There appears to be a minor plot hole with Grace and Eleanor's story. In her audio diary Closing the Limbo Room, Grace expresses concern over how she will feed Eleanor. This is after the New Year's Eve Riots of 1959. The problem is that Eleanor was already gone and converted to a Little Sister by 1958. Grace and Sofia friendship i noticed in the audio diarys that grace and lamb and a sort of friend ship i thought that it was stranger when you kill grace Lamb is very mad and angry and sounds like she is upset that you kill grace.DeirdreKent101 23:46, August 11, 2010 (UTC) Grace and Hypnotize The last time I went up to Grace I decided to save my game and hit her with a random Plasmid for Trivial purposes. The Plasmid turned out to be Hypnotize, which I had decided to see if Grace would go berzerk and putt me to death with her cane if I used it on her. The result was... she died. Instantly. I nearly soiled myself and switched the game off. Has anyone done this before, or am I the only one to do this?Dark Swarmlord 11:42, March 5, 2011 (UTC) :I think her and Stanley both die instantly no matter what offensive you use against them. I'm guessing the developers never gave them combat AI or the conditional dialog like the Splicer's have, so they made them this way as a precaution. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ 'ʈalk''' }]] 17:45, March 5, 2011 (UTC) :"The result was... she died. Instantly. I nearly soiled myself" :Hmmm... :Testxyz (talk) 14:09, December 9, 2013 (UTC) Music After the above events I went back on the game (this is at most an hour and a half, two hours ago). When I loaded the game back up I found that this slightly unnerving music was playing, and wouldn't stop. I noted this isn't in the trivia, nor is it discussed here. Has anyone done this before, and if so, is it notible enough to stick it in the trivia? For clarification, I was inside the rom when I saved, and had no Sisters left to Rescue. Dark Swarmlord 08:35, May 15, 2011 (UTC) :Uh, disregard what I put there, I found the answer in Pauper's Drop. I knew I read it somewhere, and I didn't think to look at that page. My bad. Dark Swarmlord 21:25, May 15, 2011 (UTC) ---- Grace Holloway is rendered penniless ?? https://bioshock.fandom.com/wiki/Closing_the_Limbo_Room Thats talking about the Kashmir incident in 1959 isnt it - sound like she was working upto that point of time AT that point she doesnt sound 'blackballed' to me. (blackballed usually meant to block from working for having sympathies contrary to those the employer(s) would want representing/associated with their business) --- Blackballed?? For handing out seditious pamphlets and singing against Andrew Ryan in the middle of the Civil War ?? Atlas's Splicers are murdering people in the streets, disrupting Rapture's economy, possibly threatening even the sustinance of the population --- and Grace is helping the other side?? War changes things. Most of the people in Rapture came out of WW2 when such measures were routine if not supported by the majority. Freedom is one thing. Freedom to help the enemy destroy your World is another. :Sorry for digging up that point from what I believe to be none other than the obnoxious Textxyz himself, but it's something on which I came up as well. :To have Grace Holloway being barred from the normal singing places in Rapture while already living in pauper's Drop doesn't make sense. The way I see it, and I don't think documents contradict it: #She came to live in Rapture with the intent of starting a singing career. #She started singing against some aspects of Rapture's society and that got her barred from any employment in regular singing places, bars and else. #She ended up poor because of that turn of event and eventually settled in Pauper's Drop, where the Limbo Room was the only place she could sing freely. #She met James, who eventually was taken away for his political views and agenda. That broke her heart even more. #With that last state of mind, she met Lamb in therapy within her free consultations. Lamb started influencing her into participating in the Rapture Family. #The rest is what the game's narrative explicitly tells. Grace raises Eleanor in Lamb's absence, the Limbo Room eventually closes (probably due to the unrest caused by the war on smugglers/Fontaine), Eleanor got abducted by Poole during a meeting of the cult in Dionysus Park, etc... :I didn't want to submit such changes directly on the page because my memory of the game's lore is still fuzzy. I'd appreciate if someone else can confirm my list of events above. Pauolo (talk) 16:08, May 6, 2019 (UTC) I had to re-write this several times as I looked more and more into it and I think you are right. The main evidence being Closing the Limbo Room, as she wouldn't have worked there during the closing of the club if she was blacklisted because of her work there. It seems that the Limbo Room was not afraid of being shut down as they took her in and the same goes for Steinkamp Recordings, as their poster advertises her show at the Limbo Room. In Radio Messages: Pauper's Drop#16. Sofia Lamb - Grace's Place in Rapture, Lamb states that her being blacklisted made her penniless, which caused the move to Pauper's Drop. She seemingly made enough money to get a "nice" apartment at the Sinclair DeLuxe, but was still unhappy, started seeing Lamb etc. I think you can go ahead and make the change and if you need help with some specific citation just ask me. --Shacob (talk) 22:17, May 6, 2019 (UTC) ::Wasn't Grace a part owner of the Limbo Room? In the Closing the Limbo Room Audio Diary she stated "we" have to close the Limbo Room, not "they" have to close it. I know it's still a bit ambiguous though. sm --Solarmech (talk) 10:27, May 7, 2019 (UTC) :::It took me longer than I thought for the rewrite, but hopefully now the chronology is coherent. I forgot to mention the closing of the Limbo so I'll also add it. As for ownership of the bar, I don't think that audio diary is a clear enough indication. She was a regular singer there, so using "we" sounds appropriate as well, in the sense of a group of friends. Pauolo (talk) 12:18, May 7, 2019 (UTC) Grace before the Kashmir Incident - involved with Sofia Lambs cause : Pauper's_Drop_(Audio_Diary) Ryan: "been to Pauper's Drop, Bill? Listen: (the sound of Grace singing "When you're down and out," in a nightclub) Between each song, these Oblomovs hand out her manifesto." (manifesto mentioned is Lamb's) Limbo Room nightclub was closed right after the Kashmir attack Closing_the_Limbo_Room, so this handing out of (Lamb) pamphlets was done before the Civil War started ??? Is it likely that (unless Grace was the operator/part owner/whatever) politically dangerous materials would be handed out in the Limbo Room ? Thats a good way to scare off customers (besides the Dionysus Park clientel 'slumming' it in Paupers Drop ). Possible that it (Limbo Room) reopened later? During Civil War ?? ( without Grace apparently (?) or would she make all the noise about being destitute - but then wasnt she still being supported by Lamb - evidence the apartment in Sinclair Deluxe?) Reopened later after Lambs seizing power (place looks pretty intact for 8 years later)? Vague all around. :"For Grace, the paradise of Andrew Ryan was most unkind. She spoke against him in song, and he had her blacklisted. It left her penniless... But in the Family she has found hope, a reason to draw breath." :―Sofia Lamb :Grace seemed to have a job in the Limbo Room at the time of the Kashmir incident (and then complains about it going out of business during the crisis). "Blacklisted" for going against the City's Philosophy (and people do have a right to control propagandizing in their own establishments...), yet apparently Grace still found a job. Perhaps this is more of Lambs self delusions of her saviorhood of mankind as shown by her called HER philosophy "a reason to draw breath". So was the Limbo Room another of Lambs 'ventures' - makework setups largely meant to spread her philosophy ?? : 14:57, July 11, 2014 (UTC)